Views about masculinity and the U.S. election from France and Germany

I recently did two interviews with European journalists covering the US election. The first was with a French paper just before Election Day; the second with a German paper just after Trump's victory

Note: The U.S. election has deep and ominous consequences for the entire world, and not just for those of us here in the U.S. A week before the election, I was interviewed by a French news outlet, FranceInfo. The reporter, Pierre-Louis Caron, was looking into the ways in which Donald Trump was reaching out to young men, and how they were responding. The second interview (posted below the first) was just after the election, with Inga Bartels, a reporter for the Berlin-based German paper Taggespiegel. Please be advised that in both cases, there is a fair amount of nuance lost in the AI translation.

FranceInfo (France)

10-31-24

"With him, we have the right to be real men": Donald Trump hits the mark with young voters obsessed with virility

By Pierre-Louis Caron

Between podcasts and wrestling matches, the Republican presidential candidate is making numerous appeals to men under 35. With some success.

Big biceps, big blond moustache and big sunglasses on his nose, wrestler Hulk Hogan rips his T-shirt on the stage of Madison Square Garden in New York. "Come on, that's what we want!" shouts Dylan, 23, who drove long hours to attend Donald Trump's rally on Sunday, October 27. "I knew there would be stars, but not a legend like Hogan!" he exclaims, between two series of "USA! USA!,"a stadium slogan that the Republican candidate's fans now chant at the top of their lungs.

"This crazy show makes me want to vote for him twice!" shouts Harif, 20, from neighboring New Jersey. The student, who wants to "make a fortune in finance," wouldn't have missed the event "for anything in the world," even though he says he already knows Trump's program "by heart." "I see him everywhere, on TV, on Instagram... I know who he's fighting for," assures the young man, who came with two friends, who never misses an opportunity to boo his candidate's "enemies," starting with "the fake journalists."

For the young voters we met that evening, the former Republican president represents "the America that is no longer afraid." Out of the question to imagine for a moment voting for the Democrat Kamala Harris,"too feminist" and even "dangerous for society," accuses Harif. On his chest, printed white on black, is the slogan "Yes, I vote for the criminal," in reference to the recent conviction of Donald Trump in the Stormy Daniels affair. "For me, Trump is a real bro, continues Harif. He makes us laugh, he leaves us alone. With him, we have the right to be real men. He understands everything."

A male electorate "ready to be picked"

As they leave the meeting, Kyle and Michael, both 29, share the best punchlines of the evening. "They all really trashed Kamala Harris ," they congratulate themselves. On stage, for nearly six hours, the vice president was booed, called a "harpy," a "communist ," and judged "incapable of finishing a sentence" because of her supposed "low IQ ," in Donald Trump's words. "Not the classiest treatment in the world," Kyle concedes, but "justified" violence against a candidate he considers "threatening." His partner agrees. "She wants to take away all our rights, to say what we want, to be ourselves... All that to make us woke,”Michael chokes, firmly convinced that "American universities teach female students to become lesbians, so they don't need men anymore."

In the eyes of Jackson Katz, educator and author of several books on masculinity in politics in the United States, this sexist discourse "is far from surprising."  "We have seen a spectacular recovery of young men by the Republican Party, and Donald Trump in particular, because no one was really taking care of them," he explains to Franceinfo. "They were ready to be picked, in a way."

As the essayist points out, the gender gap in voting between men and women "has become very clear in the United States," with a Democratic preference for the female electorate, and Republican for the male electorate. Donald Trump is especially popular among white men who have not studied beyond high school. In 2016, then in 2020, he won around 65% of the votes of this electorate, according to figures from the Pew Research Center. “The Democratic Party is just realizing that it has not targeted young men enough, leaving a vacuum that Republicans have stepped into," says Jackson Katz.

"Trump has been speaking their language for a long time"

In the space of four years, this segment of the electorate has turned more towards the Republican vote, with an increase of "seven points" compared to 2020, John Della Volpe, director of polling at the Harvard Institute of Politics, explains to the New York Times. Struck by stress, isolation and uncertainty about the future, Gen Z men (born after 1997) are less likely than women their age to seek therapy for mental distress, the chief pollster points out. "Trump has tapped into this anxiety by incorporating a hyper-masculine message into a broader narrative aimed at undermining trust in democratic institutions," he also analyzes.

With his aura of a media businessman, who worked on television with his show "The Apprentice" in the 2000s, the Republican has tailored a suit to reach young voters. "Donald Trump has spoken their language for a long time, because he is a regular at wrestling matches, events that are very popular with this electorate," recalls Jackson Katz. In recent years, the billionaire has also portrayed himself as an anti-hero, "a well-known figure in wrestling, someone we hate as much as we love," underlines the essayist. During his New York rally, Donald Trump also brought Dana White, the boss of the UFC, the biggest mixed martial arts (MMA) league, on stage. In his inner circle, the Republican candidate is also counting on Steven Cheung, a former UFC communicator, described as a "fine strategist" by the New Yorker.

As close as possible to young masculinists

On their phones, the young Trump supporters met at the New York rally are watching loads of videos glorifying their "brother." "It's often humorous, with songs and twists made using artificial intelligence," explains Dylan, who is part of several "MAGA groups" (the acronym for "Make America Great Again," Donald Trump's slogan since 2015) on WhatsApp and Telegram. "We share all kinds of information, but mainly little phrases that come out on TV or in podcasts, which make us laugh," he continues.

In this galaxy of online content, Donald Trump has notably gotten closer to the Nelk Boys, a collective with a schoolboy humor, fond of pranks and naked women, which has between 4 and 8 million subscribers depending on the platform. But the billionaire probably pulled off his biggest coup by going to see Joe Rogan, a podcast producer as popular as he is controversial, known for his conspiracy and anti-establishment speeches. Broadcast on October 25, the almost three-hour interview had exceeded 35 million views on YouTube four days later.

An uncertain effect on the presidential election

This media pressure would lead to social pressure to vote for Donald Trump, according to Jackson Katz, who conducted dozens of interviews with young men aged 18 to 34 as part of the Young Men Research Initiative. "Many of them do not share Donald Trump's values, but do not dare to say so in their group of friends," explains the educator. " In the event of disagreement, they are not only criticized, they are ridiculed by being called 'weak' and their virility attacked. It's like the nickname they gave Tim Walz." For having made sanitary protection available in schools in his state, the governor of Minnesota, Democratic candidate for vice-president, has indeed received a tenacious nickname: "Tim the tampon."

In the stands at Madison Square Garden, groups of young men chanted this nickname several times, totally in line with Donald Trump's speech. "But how many will vote for him in the end?" asks Jackson Katz, who points out that this electorate remains unreliable, with 51% abstention in 2020, according to a study from Rutgers University. "Telling a pollster that you're going to vote for Trump is one thing. But actually going out to do it is another," notes the educator. "Turnout is traditionally lower among young men who don't get much information." Regardless of the outcome of the November 5 election, "a milestone has been reached" among this population, assures Jackson Katz. "For them, it's no longer a question of comparing political programs, but of waging a battle for their identity."

Taggespiegel (Germany)

11-8-24

US masculinity expert on Trump's election: "Progressives have too little patience with the problems of white men"

At its core, the United States is characterized by the ideal of the cowboy, says Jackson Katz. What needs to happen for there to be a female president one day.

By Inga Barthels

Mr. Katz, in your books, lectures and films you deal with representations of masculinity in US media and politics. From abortion to "childless cat women," gender was one of the central themes of this US election campaign. Does Trump's victory mean that men have won against women?
 The outcome of the election hinged on whether more women would vote for Kamala Harris than men for Donald Trump. The Harris campaign had banked on this. Especially because abortion rights seemed to be a central motive for many female voters.

And Trump?
He clearly focused on male voters. He presented himself as the candidate of men. The Republican National Convention in July, for example, was a hyper-masculine spectacle. Speaker after speaker emphasized what a real tough guy Trump was. Professional wrestler Hulk Hogan ripped off his shirt and the head of the UFC, Dana White, gave a speech in which he called Trump the biggest "bad ass" he had ever met. As Trump entered the arena, James Brown's "It's a Man's Man's Man's World" was playing. It was obvious what the signal was: if you don't vote for Trump, you're not a real man.

That seems to have worked.
Yes, Trump has given a series of interviews in recent months to so-called bro-casters - podcasts or channels that have a large male audience: the Nelk Boys, Lex Fridman or Joe Rogan. Donald Trump has sent a clear message to men: He sees them, he hears them. He understands their problems and takes care of them. With success. In every voter group, among whites, blacks and Latinos, significantly more men voted for Trump than women.

Trump is known for his phrase "grab them by the pussy," he has been convicted of sexual abuse. Is this part of his hyper-masculine persona, perhaps even a plus?
Trump's misogyny and his cartoonish objectification of women are clearly part of how he performs his masculinity. I don't think people voted for him because he behaves abusively towards women. But they sent the message that they can overlook the fact that the dignity and physical integrity of women is not that important to them. In the fight against gender-based violence, this is a major setback.

It is well known that the US population is divided. Is gender the most important factor?
 It's not the only one. The exit polls show that more white men with a university degree voted for Harris, but Trump made a huge splash among white men with a high school education. It's a similar story with white women. So class is important. On the other hand, gender always plays a role. Among Latinos, for example, polls show that 55 percent of men voted for Trump and only 38 percent of women. So it's never just about gender, just about ethnicity or just about class - it always plays together.

Why is Trump so popular among men with a low level of education?
 It's more about performance, style and identity than substance. Many white men with high school diplomas feel left behind because there are fewer and fewer manual jobs. They have seen their livelihoods and ability to earn a living wage dwindle over the years. Many of them are angry about this. Trump appeals to them because he presents
them with a clear culprit, and it's not something abstract like global capitalism, it's immigrants who are supposedly taking their jobs. By voting for Trump, they are expressing their anger.

It doesn't matter whether Trump's economic policies really help them or not. The flip side of the coin is that the Republicans have succeeded in portraying the Democrats as the party of snobby elites who look down on working people. Also, in the January 6 riot, 86 percent of the participants were men.

The Democrats have presented their own version of masculinity with vice-presidential candidate Tim Walz. How do you rate him?
 I was very pleased about his nomination because his nomination appealed to white men in the US, who make up almost a third of the electorate - and who have often been ignored by Democratic Party strategists. The Republicans spent ten times as much on advertising aimed at young men.

So it was smart to put up a white man who is a nice guy, a teacher, someone who supports women's rights, but also represents traditional Midwestern masculinity: Hunter, soccer coach, military veteran. These were the characteristics that the Republican campaign and the right-wing media targeted. They immediately began attacking his credibility as a "real man." J.D. Vance, for example, cast doubt on his military career, speaking of "stolen valor" because he had never served in a war zone.

Not an entirely new strategy.
 Correct. Back in 2004, the Bush campaign tried to cast doubt on John Kerry's military achievements. They claimed that he had only faked his war wounds and did not deserve his awards. The architect of this campaign was Chris LaCivita, who is now advising Trump. Republicans are trying to reinforce the notion that Democratic men are not real men. It's a narrative that's catching.

In polls, 65 percent said Trump has the ability to lead, and only 34 percent believed that of Harris. Is the US not ready to elect a woman president?
 There are many reasons, but one of the most important reasons why a woman has never been president before is that the president is not only the head of the country's executive branch, but also has a symbolic role. He embodies the country's national identity. And the United States sees itself as a very, very masculine country.

What do you mean by that?
 Rugged individualism is deeply rooted in the core of American identity and cultural history, the idea of the cowboy who makes it on his own. A real man is independent, he doesn't need anyone else. This is, of course, deeply problematic and one of the reasons why there are so many men with emotional and psychological problems. Women, on the other hand, stand for community and connection in this binary view.

So when a woman takes the symbolic place of President of the United States, she is taking the place of the leader of a deeply patriarchal country - and that is a real struggle. Female candidates must achieve the impossible: they must be seen as strong and tough enough to become commander-in-chief of the armed forces. As masculine, in other words. But if they are not sympathetic, if they are not warm-hearted enough, then they are seen as angry or unsympathetic.

Around the world, the rise of the right is being driven by men in particular. Why is that?
 Many men feel that their supremacy is threatened by feminist movements and LGBTQI movements. It used to be said that men were smarter than women, that they earned the money and provided for their families. That is no longer true today and many are trying to figure out what it means to be a man today. A certain percentage are also angry about these changes. Right-wing demagogues offer simple solutions.

Men are drawn into right-wing movements because it gives them a sense of camaraderie. It gives them the feeling that they are important. They are seen as someone who can make a difference. One of Trump's biggest slogans for his supporters is: we will take back America. He appeals to people's sense of themselves as protectors and defenders. That is a very strong, very deeply ingrained belief of many men in the West, that the central role of a man is to protect and defend his family, his community and his country.

At the same time, there is a lot of talk about "toxic masculinity." The New York Times even observed a "hostility towards masculinity." Are men perhaps also being stigmatized?
Are men reacting to something that is real and not just imagined? I think so. I don't use the term toxic masculinity, I don't think it's helpful. There is little patience among progressives in some cases for the problems of white men in particular because they have had so many unearned advantages for so long. That's understandable, but many of these men take that as rejection, as a lack of interest, as a negation of compassion.

What is the consequence of this?
 Democratic strategists need to ask themselves: what can we do differently? How can we tell a story that makes men feel involved in a positive way and included in the changes that are necessary to build a better and stronger society? I think up until now, they weren't convinced that it was worth investing a lot of time and money to convince white men that they mattered. And look what happened to them.